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Vegan People
Respecting All Animals
Relationships with non-vegans... I'm so upset :( 
21st-Jan-2016 06:43 pm
Roman emperors
Hey guys. I had an argument today and another one yesterday with my vegetarian boyfriend where he turned out to be a MUCH bigger speciesist than I thought he was. He said that what I do is much worse than participating in the animal industry; namely, that my having intense negative emotions (like being pissed off) that he can feel, looking at him with intense eyes when I'm angry, and that I can be selfish are worse. Worse. Worse than animals being tortured and killed. Like WTF? And I admit that I can be selfish, but at least I'm unselfish enough have thought about my actions and became vegan accordingly, unlike him. He refuses to even talk about these things. And I'm well aware that I can be selfish, while he is point blank refusing to even think about the animals' suffering. I don't know that one should compare selfishnesses (it's a word now), but... actually, HE should compare them, because my not wanting to always share whatever or wanting to be bothered to do stuff for him (the only ways I can think of that I'm selfish) is like fucking NOTHING compared to the horrors he supports. For entirely selfish reasons. (The only thing that can be said for him is that he has a special needs child and eating bread with eggs, cheese and butter is fast - but it's not like eating bread with tahini, peanut butter and say a chickpea omelette is much slower.)

Another killer argument was, "I don't kill them myself." No, you just pay someone else to do it for you, participating in the worst capitalist system ever that's the single biggest reason the planet is being destroyed, while also preaching about the evils of capitalism all the time. Never pegged him for a hypocrite either. He also said that he's more moral than I am. Uh, okay. Next time we have an argument I'll just go outside and pay someone else to skin a live cat so he doesn't have to face my emotions, and then we can all be happy 'cause hey, at least I chose the lesser of two evils. Fucking bullshit.

Basically I'm wondering what you all would do, and looking for support. There is still hope that he will become vegan; he said once that he has been thinking about it for the sake of the planet. That would be excellent, though it's still beyond my understand how he can just not care about the poor animals. He's otherwise one of the most stand-up individuals I've met; intelligent, kind, honest, but with this, he seems to have a major blind spot (or he just really doesn't care about animals, except the cute cats and dogs that are human companions). And it's upsetting me so much. We've been together 5 years and only now did I hear what he truly thinks. Well, not surprising, considering he has immediately shut down all discussion about animal rights before.

(Mods: I'm running out of internet time at the library, don't have time to find other tags! Sorry. Will tag more later.)
Comments 
21st-Jan-2016 07:35 pm (UTC)
Ugh, i am so sorry :-(. I get very upset by conversations like these too, especially when it's people that are close to you, like family, and you realize that they really don't care and don't want to hear or consider or give a second thought to what they are supporting with their daily choices.
I think that the best thing you can do is just drop it. Accept that you cannot control his decisions or choices, you can only control yours. Let it go. Confrontation and disapproval only create resentment. Arguing and trying to get through to him will probably only alienate him more from the cause.

Or you can do what Gary Yurofsky suggests - deny him sex until he goes vegan, or break up with him altogether :-).
31st-Jan-2016 01:28 pm (UTC)
Hi, sorry about my late reply, I didn't have Internet for a time and by the time I did I'd forgotten about my post!

Yeah, the hardest part of being vegan is definitely facing other people's lack of caring. That is good advice, thank you! ...Buuut I had another talk with him with more crying, and it turned out that he still just hasn't made the connection. He said it feels abstract, like he's just buying some milk. But he was open to cutting stuff down (even thought about it on his own in the store, although didn't do it). So I'm not going to forget about it; I had the crazy idea of paying him to look at photos and watch documentaries, which he agreed to. Unconventional but who cares... :)

Gary Yurofsky is an idiot. Denying sex is based on the stupid, archaic notion that sex isn't something women want, it's just something they give to men as a kind of favour or in exchange for other things, like dinner or shelter. It's a toxic notion. Not to mention that sex shouldn't be a blackmail tool. That's a terrible thing to do in a relationship. Anyway I'm much more interested in sex than he is, and denying him sex would deny me sex as well! And breaking up would only hurt us both and get him nowhere closer to veganism. I don't know who this Gary Yurofsky is, but clearly he's an idiot with some very old-fashioned, Christian notions about gender. I hope he isn't some sort of known messenger of the vegan cause.
1st-Feb-2016 03:40 am (UTC)
Well, Gary Yourofsky is like one of the most famous vegan activists. He had a profound influence on me and his speech helped me make the connection and take the blinders off. However, I do find that the gets carried away into the extreme sometimes. In a way i understand his rage against humans that cause such immense suffering and horror daily. It's hard sometimes to stay compassionate to members of our race that refuse to have compassion for other beings.
He is definitely not Christian or old fashioned, but i agree that this suggestion that he makes to women is way out there. Although he is a man and i am a woman, maybe he knows something about male behaviour better than i do, and maybe this approach does work with some people, heh.
Luckily my husband went vegan right along with me so i never had to deal with such an issue, I imagine that it would have caused a big rift between us if he wasn't sharing my values on this.

Here's Gary Yourofsky's speech. I actually think you should have your boyfriend watch it, it is very powerful.



Edited at 2016-02-01 03:43 am (UTC)
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